WP:CFD/T

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Discussion for Today

This page is transcluded from Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024_December_31

December 31

NEW NOMINATIONS

Category:Disambig-Class Star Trek pages

Propose renaming Category:Disambig-Class Star Trek pages to Category:?

Nominator's rationale: The category name is misleading: 15 of the 23 pages in this category are not "Star Trek pages", they are dab pages that contain some Star Trek-relevant entries. How about "Disambiguation pages with Star Trek entries"? Paradoctor (talk) 23:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Musical families

Propose renaming Category:Gibb musical family to Category:Gibb family (music) or Category:Gibb family (show business)

Nominator's rationale: Nearly all other families that need disambiguation have the type of career at the end, in parentheses, such as Category:Jackson family (show business). Also, Category:Newman family (music) is already named this way. It's reasonable to standardize these. Mike Selinker (talk) 18:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rename all using (show business) for disambiguation, per grandparent cat. Might as well unify naming on all of these. - jc37 19:04, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with that, and have added the option to the nomination above. Let's do that instead if people agree. (We might have to look at the Newman category separately, since Paul Newman's family is in Category:Newman family (show business).) Mike Selinker (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Identity theft victims

Propose deleting Category:Identity theft victims (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: None of the 8 people in this category seem to be defined by being victims of identity theft. My first choice is deletion. If not deleted, I think that this category should be repurposed to Impersonated people, so that it can be a broader. ^SMason_Garrison 18:30, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Winners of Eurovision Young Musicians

Propose renaming Category:Winners of Eurovision Young Musicians to Category:Eurovision Young Musicians winners

Nominator's rationale: Consistency with related categories (e.g. Category:Eurovision Song Contest winners, Category:Junior Eurovision Song Contest winners, Category:Melodifestivalen winners) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:40, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Pesma za Evroviziju contestants

Propose deleting Category:Pesma za Evroviziju contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (see previous discussion where parent category was nominated which was a procedural close) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:24, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@D4NT3023 FYI, you really need to directly link the comment, so that people can find it after the discussion is relisted. ^SMason_Garrison 18:36, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Nationaal Songfestival contestants

Propose deleting Category:Nationaal Songfestival contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (see previous discussion where parent category was nominated which was a procedural close) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:24, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:07, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Festivali i Këngës contestants

Propose deleting Category:Festivali i Këngës contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (see previous discussion where parent category was nominated which was a procedural close) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:24, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Eesti Laul contestants

Propose deleting Category:Eesti Laul contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (see previous discussion where parent category was nominated which was a procedural close) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:07, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Beovizija contestants

Propose deleting Category:Beovizija contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (see previous discussion where parent category was nominated which was a procedural close) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:07, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Benidorm Fest contestants

Propose deleting Category:Benidorm Fest contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (see previous discussion where parent category was nominated which was a procedural close) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:07, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Eurovision Song Contest entrants

Propose deleting Category:Eurovision Song Contest entrants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (subcategories were already deleted; see previous discussion here) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:19, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. The Eurovision Song Contest generates a lot of publicity, but categories are qualitative (e.g. singers), not quantitative (by amount of publicity). Marcocapelle (talk) 15:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep: As noted in the previous discussion, entering in Eurovision is not a trivial event like entering in a TV show such as "American Idol". Eurovision entrants represent their country, and in this sense are analogous to Olympic competitors. Many Eurovision entrants have gone on to build successful careers as a result of their exposure in Eurovision, despite not winning on the night, e.g. Amina Annabi, Natasha St-Pier. A check of their Wikipedia pages will demonstrate that their entry in Eurovision is something that defines them. SRamzy (talk) 18:37, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:You're a Star contestants

Propose deleting Category:You're a Star contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:17, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. In contrast to comments re above, You're a Star was a local contest, so not noteworthy enough to deserve its own category. SRamzy (talk) 18:43, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Turkvision Song Contest entrants

Propose deleting Category:Turkvision Song Contest entrants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:15, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. SRamzy (talk) 18:43, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Participants in the Bundesvision Song Contest

Propose deleting Category:Participants in the Bundesvision Song Contest (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:15, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Eurovision Young Musicians Finalists

Propose deleting Category:Eurovision Young Musicians Finalists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:15, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:15, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Eurovision Song Contest conductors

Propose deleting Category:Eurovision Song Contest conductors (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:15, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. The Eurovision Song Contest generates a lot of publicity, but categories are qualitative (e.g. conductors), not quantitative (by amount of publicity). Marcocapelle (talk) 15:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:PERFCAT#Performers by production or performance venue. - jc37 17:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:American Song Contest contestants

Propose deleting Category:American Song Contest contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:17, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Dansk Melodi Grand Prix contestants

Propose deleting Category:Dansk Melodi Grand Prix contestants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:17, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Junior Eurovision Song Contest entrants

Propose deleting Category:Junior Eurovision Song Contest entrants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (subcategories were already deleted; see previous discussion here). Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:12, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:18, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Melodifestivalen contestant categories

Nominator's rationale: I believe these to be WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violations (see previous discussion where parent category was nominated which was a procedural close)

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:18, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Melodi Grand Prix-related people categories

Nominator's rationale: Renominating these categories (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violations. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment/Possible Keep: As a response to all of the above nominated "performers by production" categories, I'll just add my two cents – you make mention to the performers by production rationale, but I feel like that does not really apply. For some of these competitions, it is the norm for the same singers to return year after year and their career and notability as artists exist almost entirely on competing in these competitions multiple times, almost making them recurring cast members rather than one-time performers. Now this is of course a case-by-case kind of thing and there are some categorized artists who likely have only competed in one of these competitions a sole time so it is not defining for them, and I'm not sure what to make of those situations. But take Melodifestivalen for example, where if you go to almost any competing artist's article – Ace Wilder, for example – you'll see that details about her numerous participations in Melodifestivalen take up the bulk of her article and her Melodifestivalen entries are her only notable songs. So I feel like claiming "Melodifestivalen contestants" is a non-defining category here is kind of just not true, it is incredibly defining of her career as an artist and notability, and this is the case for a lot of these artists who are categorized here. Of course, it is case-by-case, but painting it all with a broad stroke like you're doing is just not accurate to me. As was also mentioned in the additional discussions, "performers by production" seem to refer to simple performances (like in a play or TV series), not participations in a competition. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 14:49, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. The example of Ace Wilder isn't convincing at all as she had many other performances too. The defining characteristic of the article is that it is about a musician and the article is already in numerous musician categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I'm failing to see how all of these nominated categories fall under WP:PERFCAT, especially Category:Eurovision Song Contest entrants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), considering Eurovision is indisputably the biggest music contest in the world. National finals that receive their own entrants categories tend to be those that are high-profiled in their countries and internationally to warrant having their own article, and by extension, categories relevant to them. I don't even agree with the fact that Eurovision entrants by year categories were deleted but I can see some reasoning for that D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Politicians arrested in Turkey

Propose merging Category:Politicians arrested in Turkey to Category:Turkish politicians

Nominator's rationale: ^SMason_Garrison 02:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per reasoning below. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 03:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, if not kept the category should be deleted instead of merged. The articles are already deeper in the tree of Category:Turkish politicians. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Marcocapelle's comment?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 13:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Politicians arrested in the Maldives

Propose merging Category:Politicians arrested in the Maldives to Category:Maldivian politicians

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between being arrested for a crime and occupation. ^SMason_Garrison 02:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. We don't classify people by having been arrested. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 03:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, if not kept the category should be deleted instead of merged. The articles are already deeper in the tree of Category:Maldivian politicians. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Marcocapelle's comment?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 13:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from the Crown of Aragon

Propose merging Category:People from the Crown of Aragon to Category:People from the Kingdom of Aragon

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories. ^SMason_Garrison 16:58, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Technically Valencia, the Balearic Islands and Sicily belonged to the Crown of Aragon but not to the Kingdom of Aragon. The articles directly in this category are about people from the Kingdom of Valencia or the Kingdom of Majorca. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:04, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Marcocapelle's comment?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: See above
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 12:49, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would purging be a better solution? ^SMason_Garrison 18:37, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Hello Girls

Propose deleting Category:Hello Girls (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Delete and recategorize; this is supposed to be a category for what is known as "Hello Girls" who were switchboard operators but also has women who seemingly had nothing to do with it - not sure how it helps with navigation. Biographical articles should be diverted to Category:Switchboard operators and Category:Telegraphists where appropriate. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to Category:Hello Girls of World War I, to remove ambiguity. - jc37 22:56, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jc37, that only makes the category target even more narrow than it is. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:33, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 12:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If kept, rename to Category:Women personnel of the United States Army Signal Corps. Hello Girls is the colloquial name, but Category:Personnel of Hello Girls would not make sense. If not kept, merge to Category:Switchboard operators. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:38, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Hello Girls were only during (and the aftermath of) WWI. Per the article: "Individual operators were gradually discharged through 1919, with the final operator being discharged on January 20, 1920." And we should match the name of the article (WP:COMMONNAME), not the "technical" name. - jc37 17:03, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the rename too. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:52, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle, I've recategorized the women who weren't part of this group - were either wireless telegraphers (different job entirely) and/or not members of this unit - which only leaves four articles and one about the group itself. Would a dual merge to Category:American women in World War I and Category:Switchboard operators be a better approach?
@Smasongarrison, I'll ask you as well for more views here. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:04, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral, lean keep. Hmmm... It's a decent size now. So maybe just add a really clear description?, because I think these 4 women would get lost in Category:American women in World War I, which has over 200 women in it. ^SMason_Garrison 18:10, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am ok with either merge or rename. If merged, it would probably help to add a See also note in each of the four articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:50, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Smasongarrison, yep; which is why I'm not fully sure either. Renaming would be better - to avoid confusion - if you think its a decent size. May be more articles out there about this too, for all we know. Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:RMS Titanic's crew and passengers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: keep; I noticed it may complicate other navigation. (non-admin closure) Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:55, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:RMS Titanic's crew and passengers to Category:RMS Titanic

Nominator's rationale: Only two categories and two articles here which isn't helpful for navigation. Upmerge to parent category. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:32, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Agents-General for Australian states

Propose renaming Category:Agents-General for Australian states to Category:Agents-general of Australian states

Nominator's rationale: Decapitalise General as per MOS:JOBTITLES. Change "for" to "of" for consistency with other categories such as Category:Attorneys-general of Australian states and territories or Category:Treasurers of Australian states and territories Steelkamp (talk) 12:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support decapitalization of General per abundant precedent. I do not have an opinion about "for" vs "of". Marcocapelle (talk) 15:30, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:New Zealand Women's Ice Hockey League

Propose deleting Category:New Zealand Women's Ice Hockey League (2) to Category:Ice hockey leagues in New Zealand, Category:Women's ice hockey leagues, and Category:Women's sports leagues in New Zealand
Propose deleting Category:New Zealand Women's Ice Hockey League teams (1) to Category:Ice hockey teams in New Zealand, Category:Women's ice hockey teams, and Category:Women's sports clubs and teams in New Zealand
Propose deleting Category:Amateur ice hockey leagues in New Zealand (1)

Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROW. Just the league article and one team article. –Aidan721 (talk) 01:32, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom, as merge rather than delete. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:43, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ice hockey in Venezuela

Propose deleting Category:Ice hockey in Venezuela (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Contains only the national team article. The article is already appropriately categorized in the parent categories. Delete per WP:NARROW. –Aidan721 (talk) 01:12, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. One of the parent categories is Category:Winter sports in Venezuela but I don't think that would be an appropriate merge target. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Possibly fictional people from Europe

Propose renaming Category:Possibly fictional people from Europe to Category:European people whose existence is disputed

Nominator's rationale: parent is People whose existence is disputed. The current name is inconsistent. See conversation on the talk page for context from the creator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Possibly_fictional_people_from_Europe ^SMason_Garrison 04:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Updated: Add other country/continents as renames. I've added the relevant existing legendary child categories if they exist. ^SMason_Garrison 18:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Split between Category:Legendary European people and Category:European people whose existence is disputed. For most of these people there is no dispute, they are commonly recognized as legendary. There is already a whole tree of Category:Legendary people too. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be in favor of that. ^SMason_Garrison 05:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle Should I nominate the rest of this tree? I think that renamed "European people whose existence is disputed" would be the parent of Category:Legendary European people, is that how you're envisioning the tree, as well? ^SMason_Garrison 05:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison: yes probably. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will do. I wanted to double check before I started tagging them.^SMason_Garrison 18:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle I've now tagged them all as proposed them as renames. Most of them already have a child legendary category, but I'll make the missing ones now.^SMason_Garrison 18:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also JPL has convinced himself that people whose existence is disputed should be removed from most other categories. I've spent a lot of time restoring his removals, but that interpretation is pretty unhelpful for navigation. ^SMason_Garrison 19:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I think "whose existence is disputed" is generally better than "possibly fictional". I do not think we should conflate "legendary" with "never existing". It is the nature of legends to latch onto real events and people, so if "legendary" means "not real", then Lady Godiva needs to be removed from the category. Part of the problem, though, with "dispute" is that it leaves open how disputed. In some cases, the dispute may be more or less settled in favour of nonexistence. In others, it may be just be a noisy minority disputing a consensus. "Whose existence is disputed" would seem to apply to both. Srnec (talk) 21:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support in general, but in agreement with Marco and Srnec that not all legendary people are necessarily people whose existence is disputed. Sometimes the question of their existence is not even the point of the tales about them. Sometimes we've got separate pages for a historical person and then the legendary character that was later modelled on them (e.g. Igor Svyatoslavich and Prince Igor); the latter's "existence" is not disputed as such, it is historical fiction. NLeeuw (talk) 02:21, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
100% agree with all the comments here. I interpret the category "whose existence is disputed" as meaning as the subject of it might exist or they might not. I think it's a helpful category for organizing child categories, like legendary etc. ^SMason_Garrison 11:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom, "fictional" normally refers to modern fiction, which is distinct from myths and legends. No opposition to splitting as explained by Marcocapelle. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 15:43, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Category:Legendary X people, and prune. "Possibly fictional"? "Disputed"? According to who? How much about them is in dispute? These should be lists, if anything. Not sure how this is much different than "alleged criminals" categories. Imagine if these were BLPs - these would be deleted outright. - jc37 22:21, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom. These are not fictional characters, but historical figures whose status is in doubt. Dimadick (talk) 17:27, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I am seeing at best lukewarm support for the new name, but there is clear consensus that a change is needed. Does jc37's Category:Legendary X people suggestion work for people?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk • he/they) 00:50, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose User:Jc37 means diffusing among the subcategories of Category:Legendary people by continent Category:Legendary people by nationality and that is alright with me. We can still manually add articles to Category:People whose existence is disputed if there is a serious dispute. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:57, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that Category:People whose existence is disputed is really hard to navigate without some level of diffusion. ^SMason_Garrison 18:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Once Legendary people (including individuals from folk tales, like John Henry, or from religious texts like the Bible or the Book of Mormon) are removed, is there really that much left? - jc37 18:56, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Shooting civilians following mistaken identification

Propose renaming Category:Shooting civilians following mistaken identification to Category:Accidental civilian shootings

Nominator's rationale: This current name is awkward. My best attempt right now is "Accidental civilian shootings", but I'd love better ideas. I'm also not sure if this counts as defining, so that's also worth discussing. ^SMason_Garrison 22:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The proposed name, Category:Accidental civilian shootings, is much broader than the current name, it includes many accidents while using the weapon (cleaning it, checking it, etc). It is a different category. דוד שי (talk) 04:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is something like Category:Bypassing people who were shot after being mistaken for a criminal. The parent categories do not make much sense, the only reasonable parent category I can think of is Category:Victims. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I'm guessing these are already properly othewise categorized, and this (a) is pretty awkwardly named, (b) can't really think of a beter one, and (c) isn't especially definable as a splitout from (the various subcategories of) Category:People shot dead by law enforcement officers. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:56, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete? If renamed, rename target?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk • he/they) 00:33, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At second glance, I am supporting deletion, per The Bushranger. If the creator of the category User:דוד שי wants to salvage this, they might try a (section of a) list instead. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with deletion. ^SMason_Garrison 18:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]